I've just watched Saddam's death.

[azekeil]

It's there, available on YouTube. Recently I've seen many articles on respected tech news sites (amongst others) talking about the death of professional journalism due to the rise in 'Citizen Journalism', and about Saddam's death as reported by mobile phone footage.

There is a news channel on television which reports the news by simply providing the footage without commentary to let viewers draw their own conclusions; this is the most similar experience I can think of.

I found it harrowing to witness the actual death of an actual human being - I knew I would. But I feel it is a very important step in our development as a species. Up until now we have always relied on news from a third party - now at least we can see it from a second party.

The actual footage reveals that the execution was performed to a background of jibes and taunts; indeed Saddam could be argued to come off looking better than his executors - a sad day indeed for humanity, considering he is the perpetrator of mass murder and persecution.

As a result, there will be an investigation by the new Iraqi government.

We are living in a world of increased surveillance. In a world where the internet enables increased disavowment of personal responsibility, so conversely increased surveillance seeks to redress the balance. This is important for events on this scale of importance, but for every-day goings on the picture is less clear.

At any rate, no longer will important events like this be able to happen behind closed doors without the true nature of the event being revealed to the public. This, I feel, is an important step in our evolution.

Comments

[reindeerflotila.livejournal.com]

I am sad they did it.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

I am very much glad he was killed for his crimes. If death is the ultimate punishment, surely his actions qualified him for the ultimate penalty?

I am NOT glad about the manner in which the execution was carried out. I CAN understand however that these men might be passionate about killing the cruel dictator who ruled over them oppressively and caused many deaths and ruined the lives of many more.

[reindeerflotila.livejournal.com]

I do not believe death is the ultimate punishment at all.

Also, the televised nature of it disturbs me somewhat.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Well, perhaps, but I don't think prolonging his punishment is right. I simply do not think he deserves the right to exist in our world after what he has done - death to me seems like the ideal solution to punish him and placate me.

I have to say I don't feel disturbed by the televised nature. I feel that death, when issued as a punishment, should be ritualised to distinguish it from death for any other reason. Usually involving reading out the crimes the person is guilty of, offering them the chance practise their religion briefly if they choose to, then a quick, painless, humane death, followed finally by a humane and dignified disposal.

[reindeerflotila.livejournal.com]

I just think that entertainment and execution should never be mixed less we end up with battle royale :P

Silliness aside, I just get an uncomfortableness over the whole issue. If Saddam is executed for crimes XYZ does it not follow that any other person guilty of XYZ should be executed also, and that runs us up against the
"Yes, but the US wants *insertoilproducingcountry* to be friends with it so no, that dictator is mysteriously NOT on the hit list". Etc, but that is a massive other issue I guess.

/ ramble

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Good lord, I certainly don't class what I just saw as entertainment. It was informative, empowering and important, but definitely not entertaining.

Following your argument there for a second, yes, if two people commit XYZ they should concordantly suffer the same punishment. Any country seen to be flouting this obvious law of justice should (and for the love of *insert appropriate deity here* I would sincerely hope would) be drawn up on it and cut down mercilessly as the hideously corrupt festering pile of excuse for a government that it really is.

Aside from all that, there are of course issues surrounding whether it's a national or international crisis, and whether the recognised bodies within said countries have petitioned for international intervention etc blah blah *snore*.

[the-magician.livejournal.com]

if two people commit XYZ they should concordantly suffer the same punishment

Depending on your definition of "XYZ" I disagree strongly.

A person who stabs another person to steal their money just to be able to buy a better TV
A person who stabs another person because they need the money for drugs they are addicted to
A person who stabs another person to stop them shooting a class full of children
A person who stabs another person because they are suffering hallucinations due to brain infection
A person who stabs another person because they are suffering hallucinations due to taking drugs
A person who stabs another person because of the colour of their skin

Each "XYZ" needs to be seen in context, with an understanding of "why" and whether the person was cognizant of what they were doing and whether they would be a threat to society again. If your definition of "XYZ" includes all that, then I agree with you. !

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Ah, I think I thought that the assumption here was that there were no extenuating circumstances, that it was done purely for gain.

[reindeerflotila.livejournal.com]

yES, i was poorly inferring that XYZ would in all instances, be concurrently determined for individual 1 as for 2.

[easternpromise.livejournal.com]

To some extent, so am I. Unfortunately, I also think it was pretty much the only option that they had. Keeping the man alive was asking for trouble. He did awful, appalling things to his own people - I'm afraid I can't have much, if any, sympathy for him. I don't agree with the death penalty in principle, although I couldnt put my finger on exactly why that is - a certain element perhaps of "what if you have the wrong person". That couldn't possibly be argued in this case.

It is sad - the loss or taking of a human life is always sad - but I think that ultimately it was the right thing to do. It's just a shame that it couldn't have been conducted with a little more decorum...

[kaz-pixie.livejournal.com]

I agree with you. I am ultimately very very much against the death penalty (an eye for an eye and the world will go blind etc), and I think it sets entirely the wrong tone - believe in democracy, we don't go around killing people, oh wait, we do, but he deserved it. Oh wait, what's that, trial is deemed unfair by humanitarian groups, well he still deserved it.

In this case though I do think it was probably the only real option open to the authorities. He is too much of a dangerous figurehead.

I won't be watching the video because I think it's quite distasteful, I think generally things like public hangings are distasteful because it is ultimately someone's death and I think they have the basic right to be alone with their feelings in those final moments, it goes beyond punishment and into cruelness to taunt them before their death.

This being said i'm aware that i'm very much a westerner and that there is a strong cultural element to my logic.

[dr-atheist.livejournal.com]

I'm generally uncomfortable with the death sentence. I think it's worse in America where someone sits on Death Row for 10 years or so, but never have more than a months notice of their execution.
I think it would have been better if they had finished trying him for all the crimes, instead of executing him for the first one he was found guilty for. That way he would be much more answerable for all the things he did, instead of one instance. Imagine if Hitler was only held responsible for the night of the long knives, but not WW2/the holocaust/everything else!
I also watched the footage, I wasn't proud of myself, but it's such a significant part of our history that I felt I couldn't not. If that makes sense.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

I also watched the footage, I wasn't proud of myself, but it's such a significant part of our history that I felt I couldn't not. If that makes sense.

This is exactly my point. I didn't watch it for entertainment, I watched it for education and understanding.

A lot of people seem to feel it's been sensationalised - well, it is an important event, and technology has enabled what was expected (or seemed to be expected) to take place behind closed doors to be published uncensored to the world at large. The world at large can play a part in holding people accountable for their actions in such important events. Tianaman Square was another example - although I believe this was reported by a professional journalist.

I was upset that he was only tried for his minor crimes too, but expecting a full and fair trial under the circumstances the country is going through was probably expecting a bit much. I am just glad that the earlier mistake of allowing him to continue with his cruel regime after the first invasion by allied forces had been rectified. The west here played a role in extending the suffering of the people, when it had a duty to carry through its initial actions to their natural conclusion. If you're going to invade to stop a despot, why stop short of deposing him and holding him accountable?

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Yes, I disagree with the death penalty where there is any element of doubt. But I rile against the traditional western values that a life is sacred - possibly because I don't believe in a higher being or power to confer that blessing - if someone has committed such heinous crimes as he has, the human race should have the right to decide that he no longer deserves the right to live amongst us.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

The US is a 'democracy', and they go around killing people all the time...

I commented to easternpromise above with my thoughts on the death penalty.

I've commented to others on this post about the reasons I chose to watch the video - I also find it distasteful, but I feel it is an important part of understanding the true nature of humanity, and an important event in history.