Does any one else feel..

[azekeil]

..that everything we do is ultimately futile? I don't mean in the sense that we die of old age, and the problem that ancient civilisations struggled with in their sense of impermanence, I mean in the sense that the economy is collapsing, peak oil is just around the corner, climate change is practically inevitable, politics seems to only get worse not better, wars, famine and exploitation still exist, each successive generation appears to have access to worse education and that the day-to-day work we do is so abstracted from any of these fundamental issues that it all just seems unreal.

This isn't supposed to be a negative post, I just.. am finding it hard to justify our way of existence given the above. And the biggest irony is that tomorrow I will go in to work, put this all to the back of my mind and continue performing my ultimately futile role.

Comments

[lee-chaos.livejournal.com]

Ah, but work is a means to end - allowing us to truly party like it is the End of Days!

In all likelihood, we'll find a way to survive. In the same way as you don't do your homework until the day before, no-one will take global warming seriously until we can see the real doom on the horizon. Then we'll hit the deadline in a mad panic - it won't be the most elegant solution, but it'll do, and life will go on.

Either that or we're all dead. Either's cool with me.

[eremite.livejournal.com]

Very often, yes.

I try to remember that ancient Greek philosophers wrote about the collapse of their economies, transport systems and fuel sources, that they were convinced that the world was ending and so on and, hey, they got it wrong. But more often I think about 6.7 billion people, widespread food riots, spiralling water consumption figures, etc., etc...

I'm fairly lucky in that I work for an organisation with what I consider a worthwhile function and a pretty good ethical stance but to what end? A lot of the time it's wonderful and I enjoy my job, but I often come across behaviour that makes me want to spork my brains out or, alternatively, spork out the brains of whoever's perptrating said behaviour.

This evening after work I stood at the bus stop and looked at the cars going by and though for the umpteenth time of how much I dislike cars. Some cars I find beautiful in many ways but as a class of object... hideous. Noisy, dirty, polluting, time-gobbling, resource-gobbling, ugly, sold using hateful advertising, grinding around wheels of greed and unhappiness. "Freedom" my arse.

More and more I'm with Jerome K Jerome: Let your boat of life be light, packed with only what you need - a homely home and simple pleasures, one or two friends, worth the name, someone to love and someone to love you, a cat, a dog, and a pipe or two, enough to eat and enough to wear, and a little more than enough to drink; for thirst is a dangerous thing.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Heh.

This is just it - humans can only comprehend things in the scale of homework that has been left to the last minute. Well this isn't homework, this isn't even coursework. This is a legacy of western 'civilisation' that we're finally going to be paying the price for.

Life will go on, but at what cost? Why aren't we doing more?

[the-magician.livejournal.com]

The troubles in Northern Ireland, which looked to only get worse and worse, are at an end (give or take a few nutcases), the wall is down in Berlin, the Cold War and nuclear armageddon between the US and the USSR (which also looked pretty much inevitable) has gone, people live longer, health is better, mental health issues are now something to treat and not to abandon people, billions in aid is sent around the world to help those that need it, I can phone the US and talk to my girlfriend there for 2p/minute, there's a world wide web and internet, mobile phones are cheap and give us a freedom to meet people, rearrange our lives and live life to the full, the economy may be "collapsing" and yet my house still costs more than twice what I paid for it eleven years ago and has gone from three times my income then to five times my income now (and my income has gone up faster than inflation), climate change may be inevitable but there have always been things from plagues to natural disasters to world wars ... climate change is just the next thing we have to battle ... life isn't easy, but we have access to good dentistry and good anaesthetics, to medicines to combat diabetes and to slow the onset of dementia, most cancers are treatable and survivable, infant mortality is low (in developed countries), and I have faith that science and technology will continue to find answers ... 100 years ago we weren't dependent on vast amounts of oil, and I have my fingers crossed that in 100 years time not only will we have good sensible replacements for oil, but that you and I will still be alive to see it.

Each generation has had access to *better* education, whether they chose to use it is another matter, but the students of today are upset when they get better A level results than ten years ago, because they feel that not only are they working harder to get those good results, but that if education hadn't improved in the last ten years, then *someone* is slacking, as we continue to expect that things will get better. Is that delusional, expecting house prices and share prices to continue going up forever? To expect cars and computers to get faster and cheaper? Possibly, but that's the world we're continually striving to create.

In so many ways the "things" are better (from console games to mobile phones to eye laser surgery to artificial limbs to the access to information on the internet, whether wikipedia or gov.uk)

Politicians have always been corrupt, but now we have newspapers publishing expenses, whistleblowers and citizen reporters, we have the most exposed political arena we've ever had.

And if you feel your day-to-day work is too abstracted, well, there are plenty of people out there doing things on the front line of fairness, energy, world hunger, combating disease and the rest, and there's always room for more. Charitable giving continues to be high even during a time of comparative lack of wealth, and getting the message in front of people has never been easier.

In many ways, we are living in the best of times, and there are so many glorious possibilities ahead ... and yes, there is still war, famine, exploitation etc. and that's bad, but I must admit I didn't expect the world to achieve perfection during my lifetime, just that we'd continue to struggle to make things better, and I think we are.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Simple pleasures are indeed the best. A curse of modern society is too much choice and the paralysis caused by it. The hippy in me that wants to retreat to a commune is still (stubbornly) not dead yet.

[nemy.livejournal.com]

civilizations come and go. This one is no better or worse than the rest. It may fall over but another will take its place.

I suppose surely you should ask yourself what would be useful "work" (your definition)?

However if you see the human race as ultimately useless then start asking yourself what would something better than humans look like?

Music and art make me happy. I also think that simple things like human company and love are pretty worthy in the scheme of things (to me at least).

Hey its a consumer culture isnt it. Just pick the small little bits you like and move on.

[eremite.livejournal.com]

Whereas I would cheerfuly take all - okay, that's harsh, almost all - the mobile phones in the world and destroy them utterly.

[nemy.livejournal.com]

I totally agree. Half the problem is that we are so much more aware (through media/internet etc) of whats wrong with the world.

Good news travels slowly (and more crucially sells less)

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

I was hoping someone would comment with the counter-argument - while it's in the back of my mind I'm sure, it was being drowned out (as is human nature) by the pessimistic (realistic?) part of me.

I generally like to think I'm a realist - and while yes there have been predictions of Armageddon throughout history, I don't think there has ever been anything quite on the same global scale as peak oil. All previous problems have fallen to humankind's persistence if nothing else. When the fundamentals of how we carry out our lives starts to unravel what does that leave? Oil is used from everything from fuel to transport goods to goods themselves (plastics).

And the trouble is that I believe all the people in the world working on the problems won't solve them now, even if that were to happen. This is part of where my feeling of futility stems from.

Perhaps I'm being a bit over-harsh, but I do feel like I'm strapped to a giant roller-coaster without a choice in the matter, and it's just approaching the summit with some unsettling clunks and the others are starting to look at each other with fearful looks...

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Yes but it's the falling over that worries me and leaves me feeling that putting effort into this one is ultimately futile.. so really this sounds like you're agreeing with me?

I don't think I (or any number of others) could do much to usefully prevent or reverse this.. so I guess tooling up on self-sufficiency skills would be the next best thing.

The simple pleasures are good, yes. But they don't stop me worrying about the not so simple problems.

[sarah-mum.livejournal.com]

I know the feeling, to some extent. A while ago, when I worked for the pencil pushers I felt extreme frustration at not being able to say "I made this" or "I did something worthwile" at the end of a day. So I took myself off and tried to correct that.

I'm not sure I entirely succeeded, but it was an interesting journey, and one which has brought me to the conclusion that it's all about balance. I now have a job which is enough to keep a roof over my head, which I can leave at 5pm and forget about, and which allows me time and headspace to do things which are more fulfilling.

In summary. I hear you - now get out there and start swinging a hammer.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Heh, so is *this* my mid-life crisis then?

Gods, I have been planning it for far too long.

I don't know if I have the strength to make the choice you did to correct the balance - I'm too obsessed with trying to buy myself stability - which of course is in direct conflict with the beliefs I outline here. Maybe push will come to shove?

[sarah-mum.livejournal.com]

Smells very much like one, yes.

If you want some tips - mainly on how not to do it - you know where I am.

[the-magician.livejournal.com]

Peak oil may have already occurred, or may not happen until 2020, and while there are likely to be economic consequences of that, then I still can't say whether that will be better or worse than living in London during the blitz and existing on rations and the constant threat of dying in a bombing or of influenza.

We are investigating many forms of renewable and sustainable energy, from solar and wind, to wave and geothermal and onto things like fusion reactors ... it seems clear that for the next 20-40 years that the most "sensible" replacement for oil will be nuclear, and yes, we may have to moderate our lifestyles and accept that perhaps the day when everyone (above a certain income level) that wants a car can own one and drive it as much as they want is coming to an end ... electric & fuel cell cars are one option, as are the driverless pod cars of Minority Report (already in operation at Heathrow (http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/18/heathrow-taxi-pods-become-a-glorious-driverless-reality/))

A lot of the world survives on very little oil, the most threatened are the most developed countries (like us).

What are the "fundamentals of how we carry out our lives"? And what are the priorities ... with very cheap and "unlimited" energy, we've developed a decadent lifestyle (and it's so tempting to compare it with the fall of the Roman Empire) that expects to have bigger and flatter TV screens, better and cheaper computer games, 100mbit downloads, and butter and lamb delivered from New Zealand selling for less than locally produced produce.

It's like having a credit card ... we've been spending far more than we could sensible afford for the last 100 years and now we're seeing the credit limit approaching ... it may indeed be time to cut back and learn to live within what is possible ... even after peak oil passes, there will still be plenty of oil for many more years, though speculation will push the price ridiculously high for a while, with the consequent economic problems ...

... synthetic oils and biofuels are both available now and will continue to be available ... and there will need to be a balance found between growing crops for food and crops for fuel/plastics etc.

And there are things you can do about it. Don't sit in the rollercoaster and wait for it to crash down, get out and do something outside of that analogy! Support research, support sustainability, avoid unnecessary flying and driving, and encourage others to do likewise ... anything that slows the "oncoming train" gives us more time to find alternatives.

It may well be too late for climate change ... but if so, have you looked to see where you live now, and where you need to think about moving to for the best living experience as the sea levels rise? Have you thought about what careers will be in demand and will pay a premium in a climate change affected society? I know I haven't ...

... somethings are inevitable, but between now and then you have the choice of living your life to the full now, or preparing for the inevitable, or both.

It's likely that rising fuel costs will severely restrict air travel in the moderately near future (say 10-20 years time), so it might be a great time to go visit all those places you won't get a chance to then ... or a great time to stop flying and encourage others to do likewise to extend the window of cheap flights and lower sea levels.

Contribute to the election campaigns of those that are making the most sense in terms of preparedness for the future (either though money, or through actually knocking on doors or running for office)

The worst part of "futility" is the losing control and having it roll over you and crush you ... rage at the dying of the light!

[gashinryu.livejournal.com]

Perhaps you need to break your programming?

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

I'm sure of it. There are many 'bad habits' I've got into.

But, leaping into the unknown? I don't think I've got the strength for that right now.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

While you're beginning to appreciate the enormity of this unprecedented crisis, have a look at sites like this one, which make you think more about what the potential impacts are going to be.

I have been thinking about where I'm living and what I'm doing. I'm lucky in that the things I want to pursue as hobbies might stand me in good stead in the future: woodwork and blacksmithing.

Some of what you and others have been saying here makes me think that what these guys are doing and saying is probably quite valid - in essence that the myths that humans will persevere and triumph as we always have are misleading and inaccurate, and we need to spin new myths which teach us better ways of living. It is something the writers and artists can contribute.

[robinbloke.livejournal.com]

Build an apocalypse kit.
Learn survival skills.
But watch the world and realise that some people actually are trying to save us all.

[oholiab.livejournal.com]

Don't believe what you read in the press is my answer to this. The reason people are getting better a level results is because of a system which allows them to accurately represent what they have learned, there's better provisioning for those who are less able or financially supported, and in terms of higher education, I can at least vouch for this generation of up and coming physicists who are going to enable some amazing technology.

War has fewer casualties, and it doesn't take the invasion of many countries and total genocide to start it any more. Famine is now better publicised. At least we have an accurate view of it, should we chose to do something about it. Racism is falling away... the president is black. And in our everyday lives, we are making and doing new things... and we have our friends. The human experience is what life is all about on an individual basis, and on the larger scale of things, the problems aren't bigger, they're only better reported, and hence less easy to ignore.

And don't forget that the press will always try and make a bad thing seem worse to evoke the consumerist response.

Chin up :)

[the-magician.livejournal.com]

I reject the beliefs of some that we are going to end up going back to an agrarian society, riding horses and living off the fields we plant ourselves ... there have been apocalyptic predictions and people building their survival camps for at least the last fifty years.

The first link you've given is highly selective in the sources it picks, and always goes for the worst case scenarios and does the "if it did this in the 1970s, imagine how much worse it will be" sort of scare mongering. I'm sure the people who wrote it believe it, but I've done my own research and am sure that, aside from other factors like unprecedented terrorist attacks (which I'm not convinced we're doing our best to minimise), that we'll cope (albeit with some tightening of belts or loss of some of the wilder excesses cheap oil has lead us to).

I'm more worried about a rising religious response to all this and a new conservatism and fundamentalism that will expect us to act their ways "because scary big guy in sky says so" or the "green terrorists" who will try to drive us back to a pre-industrial society by destroying science and technology (I'm reading Helix by Eric Brown, and it's a world which is destroying itself after the energy excesses etc. but there are eco-terrorists destroying the scientists who are trying to find solutions/options ... in part on the basis "if every single person on Earth can't have it, then no one can")

There are many stories already of how humanity moves forward from a catastrophic change, from Waterworld, The Postman and Mad Max to the Singularity fiction. And sure, writers and artists can continue to contribute ... as can the "domestic" TV programmes (the cookery programs can continue to promote local, sustainable products, the DIY programs can talk more about recycling, energy efficiency and alternatives, the property programs can talk more about buying property that is away from flood plains and with solar/wind/methane/geothermal power, septic tanks, composting etc.)

The thing about myths is, er, they are myths, not reality. There are no flying horses, buried kings waiting to return, gods turning into bulls and getting women pregnant etc. Whether the bible (or any other particular religious tract) is a myth or not is a matter of debate, but if they are, then they too are misleading and inaccurate.

Nothing lasts forever, but I fully expect to live in a world with electricity, the internet, modern healthcare etc. for the rest of my life, though I also expect it to change more than I can imagine over the next, say, fifty years.

[the-magician.livejournal.com]

While you're beginning to appreciate the enormity of this unprecedented crisis
No, I've watched the predictions for as long as I can remember ... I'm not old enough to remember "duck and cover" or "mend and make do" but I do remember the 1970s.

what the potential impacts are going to be
What the "potential" impacts *could* be. Sure it is vital to be aware of what is happening and to defend against the worst, but we could all be wiped out by a large meteor impact next week, or an unprecedented solar flare. Most of the US could be wiped out by a super volcano (which would affect the rest of us, see Tambora 1813 (http://www.streetdirectory.com/travel_guide/indonesia/indonesia_volcanoes/info-70-the_tambora_volcano.php) for the effects a much smaller volcano in a remote part of the world had) etc.

There are lots of threats to the way we live our lives, and I accept that we're living in a cheap oil/cheap energy/cheap labour bubble, my beliefs and plans are towards creating a better future still based around equality, fairness, technology and personal fulfillment.
There was an interesting discussion on Radio 4 a few weeks back that pointed out that European manufacturing, agriculture etc. could not compete economically with the far East at least in part because of the human rights, decent wages etc. we give to employees here. So we want the far East to increase their working conditions and their costs to the point where we can compete against them again and they'll lose their markets. That sounds likely (not!) so the obvious response, if we are serious about promoting local companies, may be we have to cut back on the benefits and high living standards here ... or just accept we've been "out-competed" and find something else we can be good at (if cheap international travel goes, then we'll lose a lot of tourism related money ... international finance is more and more virtual so it could be done from anywhere ... so what has the UK got to offer? Lots of low lying land, cities built on tidal rivers and flood plains, a comfortable climate maintained by a Gulf Stream that's predicted to move away in the next century ... Perhaps we're in the wrong country! ...)

[gashinryu.livejournal.com]

Okay. I'm speaking from my gut here, so forgive me if what I'm about to say may sound like it's coming from left-field. I'm not picking up on anything specific, just reading, looking at everything, possibly seeing a bigger picture.

I think you're ready to be a father.

[izzy-stradlin.livejournal.com]

ohgodyes. i want to emigrate. to mars.

[air-bizkit.livejournal.com]

I'm waiting for the cyber-punk future!

Post-economic/apocalyptic society... Bike/Car gangs with swords, guns and cool outfits...


I can't wait :-D

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Um.

I think that's the last thing I want to be doing? Although I can see it would stop me worrying about stuff and give me a sense of purpose. But those are all terrible reasons to have a child!

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

I don't think you're getting it. There have been other crises, yes, but while we've had shortages we've never come to the 'end' of something which not only supplies energy and fuel but is an integral part of food production as well as the majority of plastics which are in most physical products.

This is why I say it is unprecedented.

I like to think I take a balanced view of risk and while there are things that can be done about all the other points you raise, there is nothing quite so life-changing as peak oil, and nothing more certain either.

[gashinryu.livejournal.com]

It may well be the last thing you want to do right now and yes, those are two reasons that, on their own, would be bad reasons for having a child. That doesn't change my opinion that you're ready for it though. :-)

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

The point about the myths was that these myths are what humans intrinsically believe; it's what guides them in their behaviours.

If the myths were different - say, that humankind doesn't always win, that nature and sustainability are the path to success, our behaviours might be different.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Thanks, I think :)

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Given the success they've made of every other complex problem involving the rest of the world I'm not holding my breath.

Although I am learning some skills for fun that may be useful to me later. I've not quite got around to building an apocalypse kit.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Hard to argue against that I suppose :)

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Meh, I don't want to live it, just watch films about it :)

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

A little lonely, cold and hard of breathing don't you think?

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

I think you've successfully argued my point - humans are lazy and stupid, we won't do anything and it's just a matter of time.

Our achievements are indeed impressive, almost as much as our ability to do nothing about the impending crisis.

[diffrentcolours]

I think part of the problem is that everybody thinks that it's somebody else's problem, or that there's no point trying to do anything about it. As we get closer and closer to disaster, more and more people will start making the little changes. Whether it'll be enough in time, I don't know. Signs like supermarket bag reuse skyrocketing (especially since M&S started charging 5p for a carrier) do encourage me though.

It's sometimes hard to see, but I try to remember that the hours I spend delivering Lib Dem literature (which is in itself a waste of wood and ink, I suppose) may eventually have some effect in influencing Government policy towards environmental and economic sustainability... it may not seem like much, but it's a way I feel I can contribute.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

I don't think there's any point in doing something about it until critical mass is reached, which in my opinion requires the governments of the world to work together.

So we're doomed then.

[diffrentcolours]

Uhm, how do you think critical mass is reached? By people doing something. How do you get governments to react? By people doing something. Your argument is self-defeating.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

I perfectly realise the flaw in the plan. Doesn't mean I don't still believe it, sorry.

[diffrentcolours]

The flaw in what plan? The plan to keep your head down and wait for the end to come?

You say you're finding it hard to justify your way of existence, but you've just done it - you don't see any point in doing anything about it. That appears to be all the justification you need for not doing anything.

[nemy.livejournal.com]

ah yes but definitely a fresh start.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

I don't believe anything I can do will make enough of a difference. I've already said that the only thing I think will make a difference is if critical mass is reached, which most realistically will be by the governments of the worlds working together. And as I said before, that's unlikely, so yes, I am choosing to do nothing.

Well, not exactly. I'm beginning to think these guys have a point - the reason nothing is being done is because people believe in a myth of humanity that promotes selfishness and greed. These guys believe that promoting a different myth may encourage people to do otherwise. It's not direct action, but it's something, and it appeals to my reasoning behind why just trying to tackle the problem directly won't work.

I guess the challenge is to get others to come round to the same way of thinking.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Who knows?

Also, I'm not familiar with Doghouse or Spooks.

[the-magician.livejournal.com]

Just because I don't run in circles shouting "the sky is falling" or slit my wrists now, to get it over with, doesn't mean I don't get it.

We haven't got to the end of oil yet either, there's a lot of it left in the ground, but a lot of it is beyond (current) economic recovery. And I have faith that we'll continue to develop other energy sources (if we could harness even 1% of the sunlight that hits the planet, we'd be vastly over supplied with energy ... when it becomes economically sensible (e.g. when oil prices rise the levels we both expect) then someone like Shell or BP (or the Saudis) will rig up either Earth bound or orbital solar power gathering and sell it to the rest of us ... one of the biggest problems may not be the ending of oil, but a cheap and efficient way of shipping "power" around and storing it ... that's why I keep watching various forms of battery technology and hoping the new stuff will continue to show the giant leaps forward they continue to announce as "coming soon".

Yes, oil is used for plastics, but I'm sure that research will continue to produce synthetic oils and that same technology will produce appropriate plant/biomass inputs into creating plastics or some new material.

Sure life will change ... it's changed in my life time, it's changed massively in the last 100 years, and it will continue to change, and at a faster and faster pace ... that's why there's so much fiction and speculative "fact-ion" about The Singularity.

As I see things there are three main ways of reacting to peak oil etc.
1) be scared and miserable
2) pretend it's not going to happen
3) be hopeful and work towards solutions

and on the positive side, we could all have died of swine flu, CJD, bioterrorism, nuclear war, catastrophic climate change (once we pass a tipping point and the weather goes mad), magnetic poles flipping, super volcano or asteroid impact long before we run out of oil. There's lots of things to worry about, I mean I could be stabbed to death on the way home from Feltham station for my wallet and laptop, or die in a car accident on the M25 or just have my diabetes kill me ... if you pile up all the possible ways of dying then I might not even be alive when peak oil happens (if it hasn't happened already)

And of course we have Maggie Thatcher to thank for protecting Britain's coal reserves by shutting the mines 25 years ago ... when oil becomes expensive enough, we can reopen the pits and find that the UK still has something to power the factories, heat the homes etc.

[woz.livejournal.com]

Ultimately all the stars in the universe will burnt out leaving what we now know in total and complete darkness with temperatures so low we can't even begin to imagine.

One day ALL life, that which we know and that which we don't, will cease to exist (at least what we sense to be "life" with the current human knowledge and awareness).

Rather than consider the futility I use this as an odd sense of motivation in as much as I'll make the most of the relatively minute timespan that will be my life. We're all just very lucky to have the chance to exist :)