azekeil

*mutters*
evil evil evil.....* hugs you*

From:

ev1ldonut.livejournal.com

I pity him...

It must be a horrible world he's created for himself to have so much bad feeling toward other people he's never even met, and such a closed mind. I wonder what happened to him to make him this way...

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does he expect people to govern over their feelings? people , mostly can't choose what they are, or how they can be happy. it just happens, and you can't help your sexuality
well... that's what i think anyways
I'm young 15 et my mind is FAR from closed. there may be things i'm not happy about but i don't viciously attack people for it, and call them names because they choose to live how they live, and kissy, and azekiel are two of the most lovely decent people i know ...

rachel

From:

ev1ldonut.livejournal.com

I quite agree, but some people choose to be close minded because they cannot deal with the world as they see it. I pity these people because they will never have as full a life as those of us who are open to things we haven't seen / done / thought of.

This does not mean I in any way condone his actions, no-one has the right to attack another because they do not agree with them.

kissycat1000 and

azekeil are two of the most important people in my life who I spend most of my time with when not in work, and I have a problem with anyone who has a problem with them. But I won't drop to this person's level.

Hi by the way :) have seen you around a couple of my friends LJ's. Shame I couldn't have said hi under slightly better circumstances :/

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yea :-/ well... ummm hi :-)
seen you too....and read some of your journal flannelcat will tell you that i am curiosity embodied!
*grin*

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ev1ldonut.livejournal.com

nothing wrong with curiosity :)
I frequently go wandering around LJ's of freinds of freinds (have had a peek at yours before) :)

well, have added you now, hope you don't mind!

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will add you back! i love new friends.... i apologise in advance.. i am horribly teenage!

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Sounds like you're doing better than many so-called adults

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i'm sometimes called the grown up of my family.... and i get referred to as Saffi from ab fab

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You have my sympathies...I know what you mean though

You'll be please to know, though, that you grow out of it...just like them, you stop giving a shit what the neighbours think and start acting the fool when you can...because later on in life there are precious few opportunities*

*And I really do know whereof I speak...Christ, despite leaving home at 17, I managed to stay free, foot-loose and fancy-free for years...I didn't even get a proper job until I was 30!

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pogtanius.livejournal.com

My God! I thought assholes like him were extinct.

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Apparently not - unfortunately this one seems to be stalking my online persona....

nice use of work time there Dave

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mhw.livejournal.com

Wouldn't dirty my hands with him.

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...but I am beginning to suspect that the reasons he dislikes bisexuality/polyamoury so much is that his 'missus' left him for a woman...after being unfaithful to him.

Still...at least he doesn't have it in for homosexuals/lesbians ...

... so there's hope for yet, I guess.

Can't be arsed to ge involved any further though...too boring.

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azekeil.livejournal.com

Lol, my sentiments (almost). But because he's known to me, I might make more of an effort and see what I can do about it. There are several options open to me at this point, all of which are rather unpleasant for Dave.

I refuse to censor my journal though.

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I feel sorry for his five year old daughter TBH

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Well...I disagree with the guy...and I especially disagree with the way he made his point...but...

Looking at his most recent (at this time) reply*, I'm almost beginning to have some respect for the guy...

OK, so he was rude to start with...but he's apologised (which takes a certain amount of maturity)...He's been a bit more explanatory/discursive rather than beligerent/rude...He's taken the time to respond to people individually...and says he will respond to others in the future when he has time (which is making an effort)

I don't know him...you do, so I won't go too far...but based upon the specific post to which I am refering, he's gone up in my estimation a little

I still disagree with his views...or at least what they appear to be to me based on the way he has ewxpressed them...but he's right about the issue of asking people to open-minded and then slamming them when his views do not coincide with others'...and I was as guilty of that as anybody else...I was no better, in my response...

So, he's made me think a bit...and question myself/my actions/my though-processes/my own prejudices/my own hypocrisy...and I'm always grateful to people for that

If he continues in the current vein...I might learn to have a grudging respect for the guy, even if I disagree with him/don't like him...at least he's not afraids to speak his mind...or to stand up for what he believes in.

I just don't like the way he did it...but I, of all people, should understand what that's like...so I'll givce hime a chance to explain himself...see how it goes.

*on this page, below (to which I have responded)

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For the record I do not consider myself "unfortunate" to have Dave as a brother. In fact I consider myself very fortunate tho I cannot bring myself to agree with his views. I am pretty much a live-and-let-live sort of person (admittedly mostly out of apathy rather than deliberatley taking a liberal standpoint) and if poly/bi/gay/lesbian works for you and is not harming anyone else, kids included - not just those adults directly involved in the relationship(s), then I say fine by me. I don't consider you perverted in any way shape or form, in fact knowing you and

kissycat1000 as I do I think you are both nice people and you make a great couple - from what I can tell you are both happy in your relationship.
I however, as you know, was in a relationship with someone who wanted to 'explore' outside of it. Fool that I am I agreed to my wife taking a female partner (damn apathy getting the better of me). For me this caused no end of grief (the only benefit was a night to myself once in a while) tho wether she just didn't notice or just chose to ignore it is anyones guess. To cut a very long and even more complicated story (that I don't wish to share in public) short, my brother gave me the chance to escape this destructive relationship (which I had resigned myself to being miserably stuck in) without losing my kids, for which I am eternally greatful.
I would like to post more but I am a slow typer and I am being hassled to do some actual work.

From:

serena-lesley.livejournal.com

That's OK, I don't think anyone actually assumes you share his views. For what it's worth, I'm sorry for the part I played in causing you to be hurt, as although of course I wouldn't have chosen to hurt you in any way I'm aware that it happened to be me that was involved.

Everyone has different relationships with different people and I'm sure that your relationship with him as a brother is a good one, in fact from what you've said before he's been a rock for you. Of course, when you see that some of us only have these LJ comments to judge him by, you'll understand that we don't share your good opinion of him. He is of course welcome to his opinions, but if he could possibly phrase them in a less offensive way they might be better receieved and classed as debate rather than insult.

And thank you.. yes, we are very happy with the way we live, no it doesn't hurt anyone, and no we're not worse people because of it. It's as normal to us as Dave's relationship is to him, and perhaps both ways of living have their drawbacks but this is right for us. :) *hug*

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azekeil.livejournal.com

Excellent comment! I hope I have time to respond to all people concerned and give them fair and considered views to clarify my position, but this certainly represents my views until such a time that I can respond fully :)

*hugs* :)

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Excuse me for joining in univited..I don't mean to be rude, but, from what you've said, you seem pretty sorted and so I feel it's possibly okay to do so

"the only benefit was a night to myself once in a while"?...Don't knock it...As the victim of a number of ill-fated, heterosexual, monogomous, live-in realtionships, one of the the things I learned to appreciate was time to myself...

And that's not an easy thing to get when you're in a live-in relationship...No matter how far away they go...or for how long they're away*...they're coming back...you're never really alone...they're still there somehow...and, as a result, the time you have to simply be yourself isn't real...it's grace under pressure

From what you said**, I would guess that the relationship already hadn't been working for some time*** and that you were being treated quite badly anyway, so that sense of a "night to myself once in a while" was probably quite necessary/valuable...although the grace under pressure can actually make it worse in some ways than them being there (cues up various genuine c&w tracks such as How Can I Miss You If You Won't Go Away? and I Miss You So Much It's Almost As Bad As Having You Here)...it probably gave you space and time (no matter how painful) to sort out for yourself who you really are

And from your above response, I wouldn't guess that you're anything other than at least potentially decent****

*Mexico for a year, for example

**wether she just didn't notice or just chose to ignore it is anyones guess.

***although I might be cynical/prejudiced due to my own bad experiences...so I could well be wrong

****I don't know you, so I don't know, but, even though you disagree with him, you defended your brother for his good qualities...not simply because he's your brother...which says something about what kind of person you are

(deleted comment)

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I may have pushed you but i NEVER hit you!

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i'm not starting this argument online.

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Damn fucking right! There is no argument!

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For the record, not that i think it will do me any favours, i wasn't the happiest of people in that relationship either.
There were times we fought, there were times we fought roughly. I lost count of the number of times i was needlessly shouted down or i had to comfort one of the kids after you yelled at them unnecessarely.
The point to this comment was that I wasn't ignorant. and i still cared for you until the end, i still do now, even thought i hated what you did to me, (You know what i'm talking about) something like that will never really go away. Which is why i'm glad you had the kids, because losing them Hurt, and it still hurts. i wouldn't wish that pain on anyone, including you.

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Thank you for editing your libelous comment, this is a bit better.

From:

deathboy.livejournal.com

That bloke is very clearly asking for a smack in the mouth.

From:

serena-lesley.livejournal.com

*smirks, but says nothing*

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Another good old DeathBoy comment brought to you by DBPromotions...

>Grin

From:

whotheheckami.livejournal.com

Not ver subtle, but we share each other's sentiments

From:

soarer123.livejournal.com

I pop back on after a sweaty working day and what do I find? Loads of post. I would like to say I was popular.......
Anyway to answer some of my critics (and sorry I cant get back to all of you) I will write a bit more.
Firstly Aze (can I call you Aze since I was added to your friends?) I pop in occasionally if I have a quiet spell through my brothers list (Snowwhite the world doesnt revelove around you) I have seen your posts before and had no wish to comment. Like a mini-soap opera I suppose of strangers. I commented on this one you came up with something that was in my eyes( and I suspect 99% of the population) that was strange and against anything that I would call love. How does that work? etc. You and others responded in a rude manner.I am rude back thats the way it goes. If you were a 'Friend' down the boozer I would say exactly the same to you. Dont be a hypocrit- looking back you admitted jelousey (perfectly natural if you love the girl I would have thought) I fail to see how that sort of relationship can work- and you didnt answer the question asked. Also hypocritical is the non-sensoring and free speach in your journal- yet threaten reprisals if someone speaks their mind (views which most of the country probably share) DONT threaten me. I could find out about you and your home within a short space of time just like you could I and that is a very slippery slope to go down.
Kissycat- no offence personally to you just like there wasnt any intended originally for Aze. I dont deliberately insult people I dont know and I apologize if I have. I do however stand by my argument that it not a suitable environment for children- but you may shield them from that I dont know.
Brother- I didnt know you cared so much. I would do anything in my power to look out for you and those two kids. I dispise you ex for what she did to them- but at least they are making great progress now and I am sure you are very proud.
Snoweh oh Snoweh. You are nothing. I actually stopped insulting you and going on your page because for once in your life you actually seemed to do something for the kids- taking them out etc which is nice. How they think when they are older and see their mum in a collar I dont know. The best thing you did was to desert them and things are looking up for that family.
DeathBoy- we have foiled before and you have come across as an eloquent foe. Brilliant retorts etc. Whats going on sunshine? lost the gift of the gab? I thought more of you than that.
Bye bye everyone. I have obviouly caused a big stir in LJ land- when all I wanted to know was how that sort of thing could possibly work.

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...I was so looking forward to a fight...but you're making more sense now...calmer...less beligerent...making a point rather than simply being rude and aggressive.

If only you'd started off that way, this whole nasty mess might've been avoided.

I still (kinda) disagree with you...even though I'm a monogamist myself...but you're entitled to your opinion...just because I disagree witrh you doesn't make you wrong...just different.

Just bear in mind, in future, that wading in that way on someone else's LJ will cause that kind of response...people here are remarkably suportive of each other in ways that their real-world neighbours often are not.

From:

I didn't see the reply you sent that upset everyone so much.

But I will point out that I know

azekeil very well, and the girl in question happens to be my sister. And I certainly hope you haven't posted any derogatory comments about her!!

Okay, so you don't understand polyamoury. I wouldn't say I do as such, but each to their own. You have no right to upset people just because you don't understand. Especially not my sister or her boyfriend.

Thank you. Rant over.

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Oh, and I neglected to mention...

I'm bisexual myself, and I'm proud of it! And I despise bigots and homophobes! What gives you the right to condemn people who are not like you anyway?

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hear hear love :-) xxx

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Thanks hon, this prat needs a real kick up the ass!!

Have you seen the names he's been calling my sister???

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Whilst agree with you sabout the name-calling, etc*...bear in mind that he did say "I am also not anti-gay. I strongly believe that you are born straight or gay and how your born is not your fault. "

So you can't call him a homophobe...he's liberal in at least that regard

*And I'm no apologist for the guy...I don't like what he said, or the way he said it...it offended me

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Yeah, it offended me too, but mostly because he was talking about my sister! I saw a comment of his calling her a dirty slapper for going with other women and I got upset.

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Me too...

I'm not homophobic...I'm just not gay/bi...doesn't bother me that other people are though...Frankly, I don't care who my partner cheats on me with...man/woman/animal...it hurts...doesn't make me think less of them for their preferences...but for their behavious...dishonesty*

But if we are to get through this the best way possible, it's by encouraging him to be the person he could be**...not by being as emotional and unthinking as we have been...

He feels bad for his brother, as you do for your sister...he's human with feelings...and feelings sometimes make us behave irrationally and more extremely than we might otherwise have done

*and even then I'll still be willing to give them a chance...I'm no angel, believe me...I've done my share of dirty deeds I'm not proud of

**and in my responses above I point out that he has some potential

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Actually he said that he believes you are born straight or gay, bisexual people are just perverts...... think that's about right.

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What he actually said was: "I am also not anti-gay. I strongly believe that you are born straight or gay and how your born is not your fault. If you bat for both sides that makes you a pervert."

But note the full stop after "I strongly believe that you are born straight or gay and how your born is not your fault." It means the idea is finished.

The fact that he went on to say "If you bat for both sides that makes you a pervert" is not irrelevant*...But it's a different issue...He believes the two things independantly of each other...

...so I stand by my point that there is some hope for him yet as he is not an out-and-out homophobe.

*I think he needs to consider the possibility that people are born bi and it's not their fault either

From:

diffrentcolours

The same thing that gives you the right to condemn bigots and homophobes? :)

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Hmmm... didn't think of that, lol!!

But to deliberatly comment about being homophobic and calling my sister names in a journal where they know it will offend is not on in my book.

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ak67.livejournal.com

That took me ages to read through all that! Blimey! OK, so eveybody is entitled to there own opinions, but to go on the attack? one wonders if there is some personel reason for this guys aggresive stance, although, calming down later. But to call anyone who is bi sexual a pervert, Oh dear, who the hell is he to judge. Don't knock what you haven't tried or in some peoples case, probably needs to. but to assume that ones opinion is right is basically saying that all should follow and what a boring place that would be and I sure as hell don't like the sound of who this guy is and would therefore not want to be like him, volentary or otherwise.
I like my life, I have never been so sexually liberated and I enjoy it! I couldn't care less if other people agree or not. Myself and my partner are on the swinging scene and are both bi sexual and love it! But then, that's our choice, as many other thousands upon thousands in this country and we will keep getting what we enjoy. Call me a pervert and I will call you a prick who doesn't know me and shouldn't judge! Call me a slut, alien sex fiend or something like that and I will agree!! :)
I am!

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