It's a man's world...

[azekeil]

Following the responses to my copy of the describe me in one word meme, it's made me wonder when I'll become a Man.

I don't really feel like one at the moment, and certainly a lot of you see me in ways which simply aren't.. well.. manly. I do manly things; I own a motorbike, fix computers and do DIY to name just the polite ones. Dare I say I'm even getting hairier (which is another matter altogether).

When I think of a Man, I think of say, my dad, or some of the more mature people in the office. Does that mean a man has to be older? I don't know. What about responsibilities, like children? Pass.

I know people who are older but they're still very much children - dylan, for example. I don't think he'd be offended by that either :)

kissycat1000 says that one day I'll wake up and realise I'm not as bouncy as I used to be, and I'll stop being all those things you people described me as. I'll cut off my hair, wear a shirt and tie to work, own conservative clothes. I won't be able to pinpoint a certain time when it happened - it will just have happened gradually.

In that case I don't think I want to grow up.

What about you lot? Do you think you are an adult? Do you want to become one, or do you consider yourself one already? What does being an adult mean to you?

UPDATE: Eeek! And now this, nicked timely from lark_ascending.. so perhaps I've put my finger on it - it's not just me?

Comments

[daemongirl.livejournal.com]

i'm not an adult. i should think about starting to grow up, as i'm 16 in a little less than a week. Being an adult means logical answers, having people ask your opinion as an older person, and being MATURE.
Becoming an adult creeps up on you slowly, you don't just wake up one morning and find you have turned into your mother/father.
:-)

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Oh, no.. I disagree - I've often done/said things that have made me turn inwardly and said "Aaargh, I'm my mother/father!"

[faerierhona.livejournal.com]

Well, I called you sweet - so please don't change that!

And I am nearly 33 years old, believe in faeries, dress outrageously and dance under the stars in fields.

What exactly is being an adult anyway? I pay my bills, work etc as well as having a child I bring up (very well too I believe) does that make me an adult?

And, more than anything, does it matter?

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Well, quite. But what is that quality that can clearly be perceived in work colleagues, that I choose to avoid in the friends I associate with? Or do they have it and just hide it too?

Professionalism? Gods help us.

Argh.

[faerierhona.livejournal.com]

Banality. I am extremely professional, but my dreamns have not died.

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

*applause*

[teadaemon.livejournal.com]

As a good friend of mine once commented:

'You can't stay young, but you can be immature forever'

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Heh. True, but did you see that as a good or bad thing?

[teadaemon.livejournal.com]

Definitely a good thing, I think.

[robinbloke.livejournal.com]

Being an adult is dreaming of having all the time back you spent doing nothing had when you were a child to do nothing all over again.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Oh, bummer. I'm already an adult then :S

So what do you call this thing NOW?

[robinbloke.livejournal.com]

A mid life crisis? ;)

I like to think of it as 'denial'.
Live for today for the dancing tommorrow.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Noooo! I can't have a mid-life crisis now! I'm saving up my mid-life crisis for buying a cottage + forge in the countryside and bashing away theraputically at bits of red-hot metal! ;)

[robinbloke.livejournal.com]

Ah, violence against hapless inanimate objects, sounds like a fine plan to me.
I can see your diary now.
=some date=
Buy cottage and forge
=some date+1=
Mid life crisis
=some date+1 afternoon=
Fire up the forge and go crazy bashing things until they're as flat as flat can be

[ev1ldonut.livejournal.com]

I don't see you have a problem here you know.

You have a lot of responsibilities, more than a LOT of so called 'men' that I have known over the years. What's more is that they are not all responsibilities that you HAVE to have, you choose to have them. There are children you take some responsibility for (would that include me perhaps *grin*), you have an emotional maturity that is rare among the male species.

As for professionalism, you take great pride in your work and do your best to ensure it is done as well as is possible. So you wear what you want to work? To say 'to hell with suits' and wear whatever you want despite the majority takes a great deal of strength of character - who said a shirt and tie makes a man? bollox to that!

Quite frankly mate, you have responsibilities, strength of character, more life experience in just 25 years than most people could fit in their entire lives, and yet you are still able to have fun and let loose. How much more grown up do you want to be?

Whether other people think I'm a 'man' or not yet I really don't care. I considered myself an adult as soon as I started to fend for myself, and make my own decisions about who I was and what I wanted. That's all it means to me to be an adult :)

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Thanks very much *touched*

Perhaps I'm just taking it too seriously. Ooh.. does that mean I'm turning into an adult? *fear*

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

I considered myself an adult as soon as I started to fend for myself

I think that's probably as good a definition as any. You don't have to let those responsibilities (finding enough money each month to afford somewhere to live and something to eat) grind you down to the dull kind of end result you can find around you in the average office.

Bear in mind that you're not an average person azekeil, and nor perhaps are most of your friends. If you're not a herd beast, it's a bit silly trying to figure out why you're not like other people. It's even sillier wishing you were.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

*laughs* Yes thank you :)

I don't think I'm wishing I was, just pondering about it. I don't think (m)any of my friends are like that. But like that article says, it's not just me...

[sciamachy.livejournal.com]

I don't see you as particularly un-manly - you're a good, responsible sort. I think ev1ldonut hit the nail o the head. You've all the good qualities one would associate with being a man, but you've retained your sense of humour and your sense of fun, which is good.

I consider myself to be a man - I'm married, a homeowner and a dad, I own a reasonable family-sized car and a reasonable cheap to run bike. I don't do much DIY myself, though I suspect I'm going to have to learn (my father in law has an absolute mania for DIY and he's an aeronautical engineer, so my lazy side says "Hey, if he wants to, let him!" but I know he won't always be around). I think though my sense of humour and fun could do with some work. They've become eroded since my teenage years.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Hmm, perhaps. Who knows?

I do feel a bit guilty though because I have just this pseudo-responsibility which everyone seems to be patting me on the back for. If I were to disappear, no one would actually have severe problems in any sort of coping without me (except perhaps emotionally) way. Is that responsibility, or just a facsimile? Is it more 'responsible' to have responsibilities in this manner? Argh.

[sciamachy.livejournal.com]

Is it more 'responsible' to have responsibilities in this manner?

I'd say so, yes - to do otherwise is storing up trouble. For example, if, having bought a house with Sue and got her and Frank into a situation where they rely on me being there to keep a roof over their head, it would be highly irresponsible of me to not take out some kind of life insurance so as to ensure their continued shelter and so on in the event of my death or incapacity.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Well, yes, I agree with you there.

I was more trying to point to things I don't wholly own. I might go into that more at a later date.

[ex-lark-asc.livejournal.com]

userinfokissycat1000 says that one day I'll wake up and realise I'm not as bouncy as I used to be, and I'll stop being all those things you people described me as. I'll cut off my hair, wear a shirt and tie to work, own conservative clothes. I won't be able to pinpoint a certain time when it happened - it will just have happened gradually.

In that case I don't think I want to grow up.

The trick is not to *let* that happen. Take control of the maturing process, don't just unwillingly give up one thing after another in the eternal attempt to convince yourself it doesn't ahve to happen and eventually find you hate your life. Write down a list of the five most important things - hobbies, whatever - that you never want to have to stop doing "because you're a grownup", and then put your sensible brain on and see if you can plan a life that includes them without being financially or emotionally impossible.

What about you lot? Do you think you are an adult? Do you want to become one, or do you consider yourself one already? What does being an adult mean to you?

I'll be writing my own take on this in a day or two in my journal :)

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

If there's one thing I have and seem to maintain, it's a very good sense of perspective. I don't plan to sacrifice myself for anything. I do consider making compromises continually though.

I guess I already unconsciously plan for a future where I can be happy doing the things I enjoy doing currently from both an emotional and financial point of view (and other things, new, as well).

So my question more should be - will there be a time where I just won't want to be doing the sorts of things I enjoy now? Does that mean I'll be an adult then?

[ex-lark-asc.livejournal.com]

I don't think losing interest in a particular hobby necessarily marks adulthood; maybe it just marks you having got as far as you can go with it. You might find maturation changes the way you look at or enjoy those hobbies, though.

[purrthecat.livejournal.com]

Bizarre! There's been two other people on my LJ friend's list who have been talking about this.

There's this link which might interest you: http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/00000006DE8D.htm

And my reply to one person talking about growing up was simple. I take the same view as Peter Pan. I don't wanna grow up. There's a massive difference between accepting responsibility and 'being a grown-up'. When fireworks and bubbles don't make me giggle, that's when I'll know 'it' has happened. :)

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

*grin* Thanks for that :) I'd already pilfered the link and posted an update before you replied..

The article goes into quite a bit of interesting depth that pretty much sums up and brings together ideas and feelings I've had on this sort of thing for a while. Fascinating. A sure sign that modern adult life is just too hard? Another sign of overpopulation in my eyes. It's going to come to a head.. </fatalistic>

[gerald_duck]

The knack, surely, is to be your own person, to live the life you want to lead. If you can do this without treading on anyone eles's toes, so much the better. Conform where necessary, dare to be different when you genuinely want to be, try to avoid being different for its own sake.

I see age/maturity as just another aspect of the whole general mish-mash. Some things inevitably change as one gets older: more experience, more money, more need to plan for the infirmities of old age, a gentle degradation of body functions. Others such as maturity, responsibility, "settling down" and so on tend to be natural consequences, and are expected by society.

Personally, I try to avoid labels. Am I mature? Sometimes. Do I have responsibilities? The ones I think are worth accepting. Have I settled down? Only a bit - I like having a core of security in my life, from which to be adventurous.

I'm always baffled by the "how old do you feel?" question. I feel like someone who's had thirty-two years of practice at being me. How can I put that on the same scale as anyone else?

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

My general sentiments almost precicely. You might be interested in the article I updated my post with :)

[gerald_duck]

[*looks*]

Eeep - large. Can't read that in the office!

At first glance, I'm not so sure about that article. It seems to be making a journalistic phenomenon out of something sensible well-adjusted people have always been doing, anyway.

(Actually, my uncle with the train set can't in truth be called well-adjusted, but that's not the point...)

One thing that springs to mind - we've probably evolved to like childish things in adulthood, simply as a mechanism to turn us into parents. Now that fewer people are having children, and those who are having children are leaving it later, perhaps that just makes the adult liking of notionally childish things more conspicuous?

PS: When was the last time you ate a Curly-Wurly? (-8

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Hmm, perhaps. But read that article when you get a chance :)

Oh, I've eaten Curly-Wurly's recently :)

[nemy.livejournal.com]

My dad once said to me (and he's 59 and one of the most unfoolish/careful people Ive ever known)

"some days at work I feel like a f*cking child"

I dont know why but that made me feel better.

Also its a well known phrase that "adults are just children with mortgages"

Besides.....your all "man" to me ;0P

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

*grin* well, yes. I'd say it made you feel better because it showed you it was acceptible to feel as you do :)

I'm all man to you? Rar! You shameless flirt you! *grins*

Oh! We're supposed to be meeting up soon? Are we still on for that? What's the plan? I have bike, will travel :)

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

From that article:
The subsequent revival of JRR Tolkein's Lord of the Rings was largely due to its rediscovery by adult readers.

Yeah, of course. Nothing to do with the multi-million dollar films.

I certainly hope you don't view me as a 'grown-up'!

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Well, I'd argue that one of the main reasons it's been such a success (apart from the IMHO well made films) is that it's based on a common theme which is only prevalent because people have read it / know of it. It falls loosely into the fantasy/escapism theme of not wanting to grow up.

No, I don't view you as grown up. :) I don't view any of my friends like that... and it's never meant in a bad way :)

[dennyd.livejournal.com]

In that case why do you sound so worried about not growing up yourself? If it's a Good Thing™ for us, it's a Good Thing™ for you too :)

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Hum, I think I just tried to sum it up in my reply to ninneviane's comment..

Adult or growing up?

[ninneviane.livejournal.com]

Ooooo, tricky question... :)

In my opinion I guess it depends on whether being an adult and being a grown up, are the same thing.

In my experience, becoming an adult is very easy...it's based on age, and age related things, like getting a job, leaving the parents nest, having children etc etc
However, becoming a grown up, is something quite different...well, it is for me anyway.

I think this post of mine from the start of the month, is when I started to become a grown up.

The important thing is that either shouldn't change the nature of the person you are...they should only refine it :)

**hugs**

xxx

Re: Adult or growing up?

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

The important thing is that either shouldn't change the nature of the person you are...they should only refine it :)

Yes! That's it! Thank you *hugs* :) I've always known that but what I was afraid of was that it would somehow change. I've felt grown up for a good while now but still see some gap between me and others which I've tried to articulate here. The gap has worried me because I've felt that the things that bridge the gap are in some ways diametrically opposed to the way I am. But it's seeming more and more that it's OK to be as I am and I've no need to think I need to change somehow.

Hope that's right/clear :)

Re: Adult or growing up?

[ninneviane.livejournal.com]

**yay**

You got it!

There is nothing wrong with being either adult or grown up...I don't know how, but somehow, they've become dirty words...like they're indicative of having to give up essential parts of ourselves to achieve them.
WRONG!
**grins**

I'm very very happy to be both I have to say! ;)
**rah**

[diffrentcolours]

I think I've already got to the point where I'm not as bouncy as I used to be. I don't like going out clubbing any more, I'd rather have a night in with friends watching videos or go down the pub. But I've been "adult" from a very early age, probably about 13 when I first went to boarding school.

I see myself as adult because I take responsibility for my own actions. I take the rational approach to problems. I consider long-term gains over short-term advantages. I try to do what is best for the greater good rather than for myself.

But then, maybe that just makes me an old fart ;)

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Hm. I go out clubbing much less frequently and enjoy just the company of good friends etc too. I'd agree with you that I've certainly had an adult outlook on life from an early age. In my youth I'd been continually frustrated at how people treated me.

I firmly believe that my adult outlook from such a young age has allowed me to make sure I got where I am today :)

Old fart? Perhaps. I have my pipe and slippers already ;) I will have to come and visit you in Ox soon, where we shall go down to the pub and I will not end up in quite such a bad way that results in you sending dubious text messages to various interested parties *grin*

[stuartl.livejournal.com]

I guess the big thing that makes someone an adult to me is taking responsibility for ones own actions and failures. I think, based on this, that paying the bills, having kids, cutting your hair to get a specific job or just being nice to people all have an impact on it. Hmm, I'm open to thoughts...

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Now, I take exception to the one about cutting hair. It's a problem with what compromises you are prepared to make - do you have to do all that to be considered a respectable adult?

[goddesssnoweh.livejournal.com]

whenever i'm forced to think about growing up i hide under my duvet tillt he nasty 'growup' monster goes away