Being green - just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic?

[azekeil]

This Guardian article on an interview with James Lovelock makes a lot of sense. Not only that, but he has a proven track record for predictions too.

I've always felt that individual efforts are not really productive in the grand scheme of things, and that ultimately humanity's collective short sighted nature will be their undoing.

Personally, I partake in green initiatives where it is convenient or useful to me, but I won't go out of my way to 'be green'. Some people feel this is hypocritical but Lovelock's opinions are the first proper expression I've found of how I feel about it all.

rodneyorpheus goes a step further and points out that the real problem is that there are simply too many people in the world (to carry on with our current lifestyles). Well that'll get solved soon, according to Lovelock.

One thing Lovelock does mention is that people need a sense of purpose. This touches on things I've said in the past; one of the main troubles I think there is with our overpopulated, anonymous and responsibility-free lifestyles. Perhaps this global event will unite the human race in a new sense of purpose, for those who recognise, adapt and survive it?

Comments

[heymicster.livejournal.com]

I've been following Lovelock's views for several years now and have found myself agreeing with him quite often. This makes it all the more distressing when he says things like this which I worry might be the case.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

I don't find it distressing for the same reasons he talks about. I'm not a hardcore survivalist nut, but learning hobbies I already enjoy which may be useful in that sort of situation isn't entirely stupid ;)

[robinbloke.livejournal.com]

Time to start stocking the garage with tins...

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Nah. I'll wait 18 years I think ;)

[robinbloke.livejournal.com]

Vintage baked beans could be yours!

[ev1ldonut.livejournal.com]

See, this is why skills like archery, bowmaking and fletching are going to be valuable *nods*. Hunting, and defense.

I'd like to think that what was left of humanity would pull together in the face of some catastrophe. But when contemplating the species as a whole, I am somewhat cynical and am always inexorably drawn back to the vision of the greedy masses and visions of their self-damnation through refusal to help others either for fear of losing something themselves(even if they didn't really need it), or because they flat refuse to so something without 'sufficient reward'.

But I do still hold out hope that there is at least a small portion of the world left that are basically altruistic in nature, that would allow the species to continue. :)

I must admit though, I'm much the same as yourself with respect to the 'green' stuff, I'll do it, but don't inconvenience myself to do so.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

...the subject of another post. I'm glad I have a natural desire towards practical skills like the above; forging may be good too :)

That's just it though - the 'green' stuff, isn't really. It's mostly a placebo to placate us into thinking we're doing the right stuff. But I just don't buy it. It'll help, but it's a bit like using a cup to fill the ocean. Even if everyone does it it's really not very productive.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

This plan has been mooted many times amongst different groups of my friends. Current best plans include old abandoned army bunkers deep in woods :)

[sayuri-eve.livejournal.com]

Interesting article. Funny to think about all this expended time and energy and nothing to show for it but a dying planet, suddenly everyone looks idiotic.

My gran always used to be known as one of those ‘crazy nature loving types’ – she’s been fighting for change ever since she was a teenager, back when no one would listen. She actually said to me the other day ‘it’s all gone to shit and we’re doomed’.
Current efforts just seem like a fad, lots of bandwagon jumping and being seen to care. I remember when I was a wee nipper everyone was wearing ‘treeshirts’ and talking about being green but that seemed to go out of fashion in the early 90’s.

Unfortunately it’s probably all going to be rather horrible rather than like being in an episode of Firefly!

"Well I'm cheerful, I'm an optimist. It's going to happen." – heh.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

I think Lovelock's point in that quote is that he sees the change as a positive influence on humanity. I have to say given everything today I would have to agree with him ;)

[sayuri-eve.livejournal.com]

I read it that way as well, it did amuse me though – I can imagine it said with a wry smile and a dash of smug!

[omylouse.livejournal.com]

I don't think all green issues are pointless & I believe we need to change our lifestyle - not to prevent the catastrophe (I also don't beieve that's possible) but to limit the effects as much as possible. eg. if we can limit the increase in global temperature to 5 not 6.5C that would have a significant effect. In a more selfish example - slowly chaging the way you live now, your energy consumptions etc will make the sock a lot less when we're forced to change things by changing conditions.

Yes the major problem is too many people & too many greedy, selfish people. I count myself amounst them as there's more I could do but don't. We need to half, preferably quarter the world's population really. I also agree that nuclear power seems the way forward at the moment. Renewables just aren't ready to take the load (& never will be unless people change the way they use energy which will involve a massive global reversal in the way we think & work)

I think we've reached the cusp and change is too late & too slow in coming. But I don't want to just give up on all the beauty - if we can get as much of the biodiversity of this world through as possible I think it's worth the costs.

I'll shut up - as a hippy/scientist/ecologist/realist I could go on & on on these issues all day if allowed! But it'll only depress me & make me angry at people.

I don't believe green issues are pointless either...

[ninneviane.livejournal.com]

It was nice to read this after all of the above, thank you :)

Re: I don't believe green issues are pointless either...

[omylouse.livejournal.com]

Ditto to you :)

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Heh. I already live fairly greenly by a lot of people's standards, not because it's what I should do, but because it happens to suit me too.

Carrier bags are a fairly prominent issue at the moment. I agree with the sentiment and other countries have taken the lead by charging extra for them. I could do better myself on that front for example; although I certainly put them to use and don't just throw them away.

I don't want to give up on beauty. Nature however isn't done with us yet by a long way. It may take time but nature'll flourish again.

[omylouse.livejournal.com]

There are a lot of little things that by themselves don't help much. But if everyone did a little it would make a big difference. The problem is to get everyone to help you need to change so many peoples attitudes & this is impossible because too many of them need a good kicking! The results in lots of people like yourself saying it's not worth trying.

(It's hard to write from this side without sounding rude, I don't mean to & if I do I apologise!)

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

I think the problem is I appreciate this all too well. My answer has been not to 'not bother', but to do what makes sense. I don't go out of my way to do things though - a failing on my part.

There is not going to be a mass change until this is driven down from above; this is one reason we elect leaders: to encourage reform.

[omylouse.livejournal.com]

See I think everyone trying is what makes the most sense & I don't understand how you (& many others) don't. I must admit I don't go out of my way enough either to be honest. I need to try harder.

It is a problem that those in power never have the drive to change things wrt environmental issues. I think the problem is the environmental issues don't give instantaneous rewards & require a lot of input - time & money. They are also long term problems & solutions - politicians only need think in terms of the next election.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Essentially I think it comes down to human beings being selfish at their core.

The logical argument goes like this: Why should I make extra effort when it will only work if everyone (or near as dammit) makes the extra effort? The likelihood of everyone (or near as dammit) making the extra effort is effectively zero in the current culture/climate. Therefore I shall do what makes sense but won't go out of my way to 'be green'.

The extra bit I was talking about in my post was that Lovelock suggests that the 'being green' bit is about as effective as rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic; i.e. not much.. perhaps because of the foregone conclusion of my logical argument above.

So the only hope we really have is for change to come down from above through policy changes and incentives. Humans are too short-sighted and selfish to do much else.

[ninneviane.livejournal.com]

I've always felt that individual efforts are not really productive in the grand scheme of thing
I couldn't disagree more. Sentiments like that are however a great excuse (not you personally, just generally) for people to carry on as they are (taking) and not make the effort that is required and to carry on as they are. Sadly I do not have the energy required to debate this...I wish I did, but I don't. It just makes me so very sad to see the opinions expressed here. Thankfully for every Lovelock who thinks he's got it all sussed out, there are others who can counter his argument with scientific fact.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

I understand your position. I disagree with not being aware of the environment and doing what makes sense, such as saving energy. It is still my belief though that individual contribution is not going to make a significant difference to the environment.

[gerald_duck]

Look at the current rate of technological advance. Look at everything we've learned and achieved in the last century. It's only fifty years since we put the first object in space!

While we can't take it for granted that some as-yet-unimagined development will save us, we also can't dismiss the possibility entirely.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Plan for the worst, hope for the best. Like Lovelock, I like to think I'm an optimist ;)