Well that was unexpected.

[azekeil]

A little while ago, on my way out to Tesco to buy some milk I saw what I thought at first were some people having a bit of rough and tumble after chucking out time. When they tried to grab the girl's bag I realised it was no ordinary fight. I was stopped at some lights anyway and with a moment's hesitation and thinking about knives and my personal safety I got out and strode towards them. I shouted "Oi!" and they looked up and ran off. The couple who were being mugged seemed a bit dazed and confused and probably slightly the worse for wear after a night out. The girl seemed to be in shock and was wandering in the road so I explained that they were in shock, pointed out he was injured and that they should call the police. After making sure they were reasonably with it, I got back in my car and drove on to Tesco.

I wandered around Tesco in a bit of a daze. Certainly I didn't feel ill then (I was off work today with flu-like symptoms), but now I feel like crap.

I drove back past where the incident happened and saw a police van and car, so hopefully they called the police.

I always thought I'd be too scared to help in that sort of situation. I'm glad I wasn't, but also I'm glad they didn't have knives and didn't turn on me instead. I think I may have rationalised that if they'd had knives they would have been using them on the couple but that didn't seem to be the case.. well it made sense at the time. Perhaps that's a dangerous assumption.

I have a feeling I'm going to be reflecting on this for some time.

Comments

[androktone.livejournal.com]

You did a very brave thing and you should be proud.
People being mugged or abused pray that somebody will come out of nowhere and save the situation, and tonight you were able to do it.

Last year I saw a large man hitting a woman and walked up to them and asked her if she was alright and when he said "she's fine" and she was crying, and I told him to shut up because I was asking her and offering her the option to leave and go somewhere else - and he threatened me and raised his fist but I had other people with me who'd been walking back from the pub milling around looking uncomfortable a few metres away and I was not being violent and in the end he backed down and apologised and she did go home with him but they looked like the power dynamic had changed a bit and I thought maybe it would be alright. I still think I should have pressed her to leave him but people never do, do they? When we walked off my friends were still in a bit of shock from the confrontation and annoyed wth me but I think I did the right thing. it's a good feeling, risking yourself to help somebody and it turning out OK. In this world you don't get too many chances to prove yourself to yourself, and when you do manage to pull it off and help somebody it feels amazing. It is good to know that courage and honour aren't just words.

You do need to be careful though - my little brother got hit on the head with a baseball bat or something because he heard a fight in an alley and realising a girl was being hurt he went down there and woke up in hospital with no idea whether he'd actually managed to help or not, and although he was OK he narrowly escaped brain damage and an unhappy ending (you might remember from my journal at the time, I was going to have a big party that weekend and had to cancel because I was worried about him).

People are scary and they do have knives and sometimes guns and you have to choose your fights.. if I don't feel I can help physically I'll stand within earshot and shout "I can see what's hapening and I'm ringing the fucking police!" and then when I see them turn round and register, I peg it and ring the police, which is rather more cowardly but an equally effective way of stopping people getting beaten up.

The other day on the way home from hospital to see Steve I heard a couple walking behind us and the bloke was so awful, he didnt want his girlfriend to go on holiday and he was saying "when you get back i'll be there at the airport and I'll check your fucking pussy for spanish semen in front of everybody" and I wanted to turn around and somehow smite him but I was barely holding myself together and I had nobody with me and he was huge, so I didn't do anything except wish very fervently that she would manage to get away from him, and that will stay with me for a long time - because once you do stand up for someone and make a difference, every person you turn away from haunts you.

Sorry this was a very long and drunken reply - I think you were very brave, I am so glad you managed to avert a catastrophe and maybe even save lives, but don't do it again unless it is safe for you even though you'll feel the urge now every time you see somebody being bullied. None of us are superheroes even if sometimes we can pull off a close approximation ;)

xx

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

I'm glad I was able to help this time, but I do take your point that I'm going to feel like I've let myself down and the other person down if I don't do it again in another situation.

In all honesty I hope I don't have to do it again. But then that's part of living in and around others.

In all this it helps that I'm not physically small. I forgot to mention in my post that a woman stopped in her car after I'd scared the thugs off and asked if they were alright. She said that she saw what was happening and came back around (presumably she didn't process what she saw until afterwards, and when she had, she made the decision to drive back around).

In a lot of ways I think she was braver than me - she was a middle-aged female - okay, she didn't get out of her car (nor did she need to), but she did 'the right thing' too.

[theeighth.livejournal.com]

You did the right thing.
Personal safety is a second place concern to taking the just course.
You were brave, and should be congratulated.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

While I get that people have a responsibility to maintain peace and just society as they would wish it, I'm not certain that they should have to sacrifice personal safety to do so. That's what we have law enforcement for - people who are trained for those sorts of situations and accept the risks.

[whotheheckami.livejournal.com]

However, given the random nature of what you were involved with it would be unacceptable to have the draconian levels of law enforcement you would need to make every journey home from the pub a safe one.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Well, true, but law enforcement is now only visible at these times in town centres. I don't think that having officers patrolling is unwelcome or draconian. It comes back to the 'officers on the beat' argument I guess.

I should point out that the road we were on (Gloucester Road) is one of the main thoroughfares and near the centre and I feel that the lack of patrols contributed to the thugs thinking they could mug a couple on such a public road.

[meltie.livejournal.com]

Bloody hell, well done!

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Thanks, I think.

[dr-atheist.livejournal.com]

Good for you. Well done.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Thanks. I'd be interested to know what your feelings are on the personal responsibility / law enforcement debate, given your public spiritedness..

[dr-atheist.livejournal.com]

I'm not entirely sure what I think, I do know that I wish more people would step in like you did, and that society would be better for it.

I think I'm starting to think (and part of this is as a result of reading about the de Menzes investigation currently underway) that the police should supplement a "self enforcing" society, not self enforcing in any official capacity, but if the majority of the population would take a stand and step in, stick up for people and have personal and social responsibility, then there would be a lot less street crime and people would have more personal pride in their communities. Gang problems would be largely gone.

This would also leave the police free to do the sort of things that only they can really do, enforce the law, investigate crimes, arrest people, and yes, do the things that really take an "above and beyond" what can be reasonably expected of anyone, like carry a gun in a gun less society, and be prepared to use it where believed necessary, risking themselves and risking the terrible consequences of getting it wrong.*

This train of thought leads me inevitably onto the gun laws in America, which I half agree with. In principle, being able to protect yourself and your property is a very positive thing, and a fine thing, and one of the things that makes America great, on the other hand, it means that everyone has a gun, good people, and bad people. When a society is allowed to protect itself, people suffer, and die. Whenever there is a school shooting, the argument "if all the students were allowed to carry guns, the gunman would have been "incapacitated" very quickly, and casualties would have been minimised. I don't think however that America has a social responsibility, people still wont stick up for each other any more than we do, they just have more power to protect themselves, with deadly force if necessary. In the end, all it does is level the playing field, as everyone has a gun.

So, I think I think that if people can take responsibility for themselves, as well as look after each other, work with the police and view them as an ally rather than an enforcer we would all live in a much nicer world. It would become our society, that we create, rather than a society that we happen to live in.

*While it is true that the shooting of Charles de Menzes was a tragic accident, with devastating consequences for all involved, it's made me more aware, and glad, that there are people out there who are prepared to shoulder that burden, take that responsibility and act on the information they had at the time. I don't think anyone can argue that the officers involved acted entirely with the public's safety in mind, putting themselves in extreme danger in the process, clearly the process of getting the information to the officers needs a serious review.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

I had a similar conversation with kissycat1000 last night.

The problem is as you say that the police should be acting as the general public's representatives to keep the peace and allow us to live our lives without fear of crime or violence - the sorts of things you might expect from a civilised society.

I believe the general perception now is that the police have been tied up in red tape and effectively prevented from performing the public service that taxpayers pay for and would wish to expect, were it not for the recursive perception problem...

[whotheheckami.livejournal.com]

Well done

You were there at the right time and you reacted to the good. Accept that and reward yourself. In the future you may well react in a different way to a similar situation; that wouldn't be any less correct.

Give that man a medal

[nemy.livejournal.com]

well done you! Very brave :)

[goddesssnoweh.livejournal.com]

You shouldn't have such doubts about your abilities and intentions. You are a good person and time after time i've seen you make the better choice about a situation, rather than just the safest choice. Nonetheless in that couple's eyes for a very long time you will be a hero, the hero who prevented the loss of credit cards, keys & smaller, irreplaceable values people carry with them. The hero who prevented serious injury, rape or something alot worse.

Also it would take a very brave thug to turn on you, you can be very intimidating when you need to be.

Well done sweetie - you absolutely did the right thing.

"Who was that masked man?!"

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Hah. That's the odd thing. I've heard other people who have been praised as heroes say "But it was the obvious and right thing to do at the time. I don't feel like a hero." It certainly felt weird walking around Tesco later watching people doing normal things and not beating each other up.

But I don't feel like a hero - I understand how these people feel. I'm glad I felt able to do what turned out to be the right thing this time.

It has made me think a lot about my attitudes towards a lot of issues. Perhaps more in another post when I've had a chance to collect them and present them better.

[jikatal.livejournal.com]

Hey man, good stuff! :) To me it sounds like you made an on-the-spot risk assessment.. and were right! I think talking of "dangerous assumption" is doing yourself a disservice, the brain processes a lot of information subconsciously and you felt able to act.

One thing, the police may want to have a chat, since you might be able to provide details of the assailants the couple can't.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

Yeah, thanks.

I did realise I'd not given the couple my name or phone number; I should give the police a call and mention it I suppose. Not sure how much help I'll be.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

I've called in and given the police my details.

[malcygoff.livejournal.com]

there was an interesting article on Radio 4 the other day about heros.
Although I'll not go in to the details, the general point I think was that someone such as you - who goes out of their way to help someone in day to day life - is the real deal.

I look up to you for being able to do what you did, as (although I'd like to think I would) I'm not sure that I'd be man enough to do it in your place.

Bottom line: we do need more Police on the street, by whatever mechanism works, but there will never be enough to stop every crime: that is why we need amazing people. People like you.

[azekeil.livejournal.com]

All I did was get out of my car and say "Oi!". I hardly think that makes me a hero. I would have run away if they looked like they were armed. I would have rung the police then and there though, and tried to hang around to pick up the pieces though.

[malcygoff.livejournal.com]

Your comments are close enough to the classic "it's what anyone would have done in my place", thus passing the final test of heroism; being to deny any bravery.

You can now rest easy and enjoy the praise and admiration of people who are genuinly impressed with your actions. ;)

[dmwcarol.livejournal.com]

Wow. Good for you. It's really brave stepping in to that sort of situation and so few people would do it. Am very impressed and feel very proud to know you. Much kudos!

[psyche-71.livejournal.com]

If only there were more people like you.